{"id":176474108,"date":"2017-06-16T01:14:08","date_gmt":"2017-06-16T06:14:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/?p=176474108"},"modified":"2017-06-16T01:14:08","modified_gmt":"2017-06-16T06:14:08","slug":"interview-billy-woodberry","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/2017\/06\/16\/interview-billy-woodberry\/","title":{"rendered":"INTERVIEW: Billy Woodberry"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_176474110\" style=\"width: 410px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/film-quarterly-logo.png\"><img aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-176474110\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-176474110\" src=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/film-quarterly-logo.png\" alt=\"June 12, 2017\" width=\"400\" height=\"95\" srcset=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/film-quarterly-logo.png 400w, http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/film-quarterly-logo-300x71.png 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-176474110\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">June 12, 2017<\/p><\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone  wp-image-176474118\" src=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-.jpg\" alt=\"billy woodberry\" width=\"600\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-.jpg 840w, http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry--300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<h2><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 36pt;\"><strong><em>Digging and Bluing<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n<h2><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 36pt;\"><strong> with Billy Woodberry<\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 14pt;\">by Josslyn Luckett<\/span><\/strong><br \/>\n<strong><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 14pt;\">from <a style=\"color: #000000;\" href=\"https:\/\/filmquarterly.org\/2017\/06\/12\/summer-2017-volume-70-number-4\/\">Film Quarterly Summer 2017,<br \/>\nVolume 70, Number 4<\/a><\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 60px;\"><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>We hear a familiar sound,<\/strong><\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Jazz, scratching, digging, bluing, swinging jazz,<\/strong><\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>And we listen<\/strong><\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>And we feel<\/strong><\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>And live.<\/strong><\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>\u00a0\u2013Bob Kaufman<sup>1<\/sup><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">In his documentary feature <em>And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead<\/em> (2015), Texas-born, UCLA-trained filmmaker Billy Woodberry does for the poet Bob Kaufman precisely the kind of excavation work Alice Walker must have had in mind when she charged: \u201cA people do not throw their geniuses away. And if they are thrown away, it is our duty as artists and witnesses for the future to collect them again\u2026if necessary, bone by bone.\u201d<sup>2<\/sup><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">As early as 1972, black feminist literary critic Barbara Christian attempted to run interference on the forgetting or disposal of Kaufman. In an essay for <em>Black World<\/em>, \u201cWhatever Happened to Bob Kaufman?\u201d she alerted readers that Kaufman was \u201cstill alive\u201d and \u201cneed not be praised after his body is gone and only his poetry remains.\u201d<sup>3<\/sup> By 1996, marking the posthumous release of Kaufman\u2019s <em>Cranial Guitar<\/em> (along with the debut of Paul Beatty\u2019s <em>White Boy Shuffle<\/em>, whose poet protagonist bears the surname Kaufman), Greg Tate lamented: \u201cBob Kaufman <em>been<\/em> dead (since 1986) and is unlikely to turn up on any Dead Poet Society\u2019s reading list this side of the Nuyorican Poet\u2019s Caf\u00e9. While he was here, though, he damn near invented the Beat poetry scene on the West Coast. Since he\u2019s rarely credited for this or for having even lived, you know he must have been a black man.\u201d<sup>4<\/sup> Though solitude, suicide, and death march through Kaufman\u2019s work, like the dirge of so many street funerals in his native New Orleans, Woodberry and his film now take their place in the dedicated second line of black writers and scholars, and the multitude of artists and witnesses who refuse to let Kaufman \u201cstay dead.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><em>And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead<\/em> had its world premiere in the fall of 2015 at the Doclisboa Festival, where it won the RTP Award for \u201cBest Investigation Documentary.\u201d This is the second film by Woodberry to win festival prizes in Europe; the first, his narrative feature <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em> (1983), won the Berlin Film Festival\u2019s Otto Dibelius Film award at the time of its debut. With three decades between the two films, one could equally wonder, \u201cWhatever Happened to Billy Woodberry?\u201d In fact, on the winter night when the Scribe Video Center and the Philadelphia Film Society hosted Woodberry for a screening of the two features\u2014preceded by Woodberry\u2019s latest short, a poetic bow to Ousmane Semb\u00e8ne, <em>Marseille apr\u00e8s la guerre<\/em> (<em>Marseille After the War<\/em>, 2016)\u2014I overheard two hipster millennials wondering as much. They had come because they were eager to see \u201cthat film that was sampled\u201d (did they really say sampled?) in Thom Andersen\u2019s <em>Los Angeles Plays Itself\u00a0<\/em>(2003).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry\u2019s <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em>, Charles Burnett\u2019s <em>Killer of Sheep<\/em> (1977), and Haile Gerima\u2019s <em>Bush Mama<\/em> (1975) dominate the final section of Andersen\u2019s video essay on the history of Los Angeles as rescued in films. Jacqueline Stewart, co-curator of the UCLA Film and Television Archive\u2019s exhibition \u201cL.A. Rebellion: Creating a New Black Cinema\u201d (2011), suggests that Andersen\u2019s use of these \u201clandmark L.A. Rebellion features\u201d offers \u201clong overdue, materially grounded correctives to the distortions and mythologies presented in so many white-authored cinematic representations of the city, particularly those generated by Hollywood.\u201d<sup>5<\/sup> Stewart and her partners, Allyson Field and Jan-Christopher Horak, along with filmmakers like Andersen and earlier waves of cultural critics such as Toni Cade Bambara, Ntongela Masilela, and Clyde Taylor, insist that reel\/real black Los Angeles will never be dead as long as the early works by this group of UCLA-trained filmmakers remain available. And it is important to note that Woodberry\u2019s recent projects are just two of many new projects by \u201crebellion\u201d filmmakers: Barbara McCullough, Julie Dash, and Zeinabu irene Davis all have recently completed projects making the festival rounds in the last two years.<sup>6<\/sup><\/span><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_176474111\" style=\"width: 610px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-02.jpg\"><img aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-176474111\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-176474111\" src=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-02.jpg\" alt=\"Billy Woodberry at the Viennale in 2015.\" width=\"600\" height=\"401\" srcset=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-02.jpg 840w, http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-02-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-176474111\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 10pt;\"><strong>Billy Woodberry at the Viennale in 2015.<\/strong><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">The unfolding of Billy Woodberry\u2019s career\u2014both his own new work and the recent critical revaluations of his classic work, such as the naming of <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em> to the National Film Registry in 2013\u2014makes words like \u201crebellion\u201d or \u201crevival\u201d only marginally useful. Any research into the full range of his film work, including his multiple roles as film actor, film narrator, video installation artist, and film history and production professor at California Institute of the Arts (CalArts) since 1989, reveals a Woodberry who might be more properly termed an underground \u201crenaissance\u201d man than a rebel.<sup>7<\/sup><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">In the words of Cornel West, Woodberry might also be thought of as \u201ca bluesman in the life of the mind, a jazzman in the world of cinematic ideas.\u201d<sup>8<\/sup>From Archie Shepp and Buddy Guy on the soundtrack of <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em> to Billie Holiday, Irene Aebi, and Steve Lacy featured in <em>And When I Die<\/em>to, most recently, Josephine Baker and Moussu T e lei Jovents as the sonic landscape for <em>Marseille apr\u00e8s la guerre<\/em>, jazz and blues, yes, are everywhere in Woodberry. But they are not the exclusive musical terrain: spirituals, folk music, art songs, and all manner of avant-garde music live there, too. The life of the Afro-diasporic literary mind lives in his films as well, starting with <em>The Pocketbook<\/em>, his 1980 short film adaptation of Langston Hughes\u2019s story \u201cThank you, Ma\u2019am,\u201d and continuing throughout Kaufman\u2019s wide-ranging canon. The latest example is the contemplative collage of <em>Marseille<\/em>, which he uses to imagine the time, space, and struggle that informed Semb\u00e8ne\u2019s first novel, <em>Le docker noir<\/em> (<em>Black Docker<\/em>, 1956). Toni Cade Bambara did say back in 1993 that one of the chief tasks of the \u201cBlack insurgent\u201d filmmakers from UCLA would be the recovery of \u201cour own suppressed bodies of literature, lore and history,\u201d and Woodberry has remained committed to telling this history, imagined and lived, through a subaltern lens.<sup>9<\/sup><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">This article is based on my expansive conversation with Woodberry, held in the middle of his two-day trip to Philadelphia and bookended by the screenings at the Philadelphia Film Society and his masterclass, \u201cCreative Approaches to Documentary Filmmaking,\u201d at the Scribe Video Center. He seemed at times more interested in discussing the history of African American labor organizing than his two most recent films (though to be fair, the National Maritime Union archives were central to the research of both). He shared detailed reflections of his film school days, including mention of one of the underexplored figures of the UCLA group, Elyseo Taylor, the sole black professor at the film school, recruited by former Theater Arts chair Colin Young to help establish the Ethno-Communications Program. This affirmative action initiative brought in not only key \u201crebellion\u201d members but also a wider group of Asian American, Chicana\/o, and Native American students that, as Renee Tajima-Pena reminds us, \u201cchanged the color of independent filmmaking.\u201d<sup>10<\/sup> Whether discussing his time as a student at UCLA or as faculty at CalArts, it\u2019s clear that the relationships he cultivated at both institutions have had a tremendous impact on his creative practices as well as his deep affection for the Los Angeles that plays itself throughout so much of their work. I offer my own deep thanks to Hye-Jung Park and Louis Massiah at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.scribe.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Scribe<\/a> for generously creating the context for such a rich exchange to take place.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Josslyn Luckett: The opportunity to see all three of your films, <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em>, <em>And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead<\/em>, and <em>Marseille apr\u00e8s la guerre<\/em>, back to back last night made me think a lot about the three subjects of these films\u2014that is, along with Bob Kaufman and Ousmane Semb\u00e8ne, I include Charlie Banks, your fictional protagonist in <em>Bless<\/em>. Talk to me about those three men, because they share a lot. But Charlie doesn\u2019t have a poem or a guitar or a camera. And that\u2019s in some ways what\u2019s most devastating.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Billy Woodberry: Yeah. (Charlie) has\u2026he\u2019s not a writer or artist or whatever, but he has an inner life and a spiritual idea. He has his way of being in the world. He\u2019s expressive and articulate in his own way. I think he has that. Also, that actor (Nate Hardman), his talent, his artistry is what gives the illusion. It gives him meaning and the sense of this character. And her\u2014and the children\u2014his playing with her, his acting with her and with them\u2026he gives Charlie meaning.<\/span><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_176474112\" style=\"width: 611px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-03.png\"><img aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-176474112\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-176474112\" src=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-03.png\" alt=\"Billy Woodberry conducting a master class at Scribe Video Center in Philadelphia.\" width=\"601\" height=\"451\" srcset=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-03.png 840w, http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-03-300x225.png 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 601px) 100vw, 601px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-176474112\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 10pt;\"><strong>Billy Woodberry conducting a master class at Scribe Video Center in Philadelphia.<\/strong><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: I want to continue with <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em> for a bit. Can you tell me about that scene in the kitchen between husband and wife, played by Hardman and Kaycee Moore? I wondered how much you let them loose.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Charles Burnett [the screenwriter] wrote a whole page of description about that confrontation, that encounter with them, but he just wrote the description. Where they are, what she knows, what he knows, what he might attempt to do to explain, and what she will perhaps\u2026how she will respond. But he didn\u2019t write the dialogue. He just wrote that. And with that, they created the dialogue, they created the scene.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: It\u2019s really something to watch that scene right now after having just revisited Fences through Denzel Washington\u2019s recent film adaptation [2016] of August Wilson\u2019s play. There\u2019s a lot of resonance. The play was first staged in 1983, the same year as your <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em>.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: With language and with action, he was thinking of similar things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Changing gears, let\u2019s talk about two of your new subjects, Bob Kaufman and Ousmane Semb\u00e8ne. They inhabit very different places, but they are surprisingly similar figures.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Maybe because they were artists\u2026who when they were younger were involved in labor and organizing and politics. Had to do with ports and waterfront, with travel. And they were sort of militants involved in trade unions, communist party politics. And also, maybe because they were self-educated, partly, or they found the possibility of studying in nontraditional contexts. They didn\u2019t go to university.<sup>11<\/sup> Kaufman said he tried to go to the New School a couple of years, in 1948 or something. But it was different\u2026the National Maritime Union (NMU), apparently, they had educational programs\u2026A man named Leo Huberman who with Paul Sweezy created Monthly Review Press\u2026was a teacher in their union. Apparently, their program was so good, you have to find out for sure, Columbia Teachers College used to send people to observe them.<sup>12<\/sup> But also, you know, because sailors are at sea a lot, they have an historical tradition of reading [and] literacy. And Kaufman had the double benefit that his mother was a reader and was a trained teacher. When she could no longer teach in schools, she taught her children, so all of them read and write.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Though we know from your film, and from his poetry, that Kaufman is extremely well read and was, as you just said, the son of an educator, he is at the same time consistently labeled a \u201cstreet poet.\u201d How do you explain that?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: In some ways, it\u2019s true. As Jack Hirschman says, Kaufman was a man of the\/ in the world and he was a man of the street. But people think that that only means people who hang in the street \u2019cause they don\u2019t have anything else to do. It can mean other things. Maybe he\u2019s pleased with that. To master the street and the encounters and the dimensions of the thing could mean something other than being a derelict or hustler or whatever. It can mean more than that. You could read what Baudelaire says about the street and about the way one encounters life in the city and all of the possibilities of what happens in the street. Even now when they talk about the \u201cArab street,\u201d what it means is: you in the corridors of power, you may have one understanding, but the people on the ground, the people of the street have a different understanding and you should be concerned about how it will play. And that\u2019s true here. I mean we just had this recent election\u2026And then on January 21st, the day after the inauguration, and then the following weekend when they proposed the ban, they saw people take to the street. The street is a place where people manifest their protest, their agreement, approval or disapproval.<\/span><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_176474113\" style=\"width: 513px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-04.png\"><img aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-176474113\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-176474113\" src=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-04.png\" alt=\"An archival photo of Bob Kaufman, featured in And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead (2015).\" width=\"503\" height=\"724\" srcset=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-04.png 503w, http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-04-208x300.png 208w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 503px) 100vw, 503px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-176474113\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 10pt;\"><strong>An archival photo of Bob Kaufman, featured in And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead (2015).<\/strong><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: I\u2019m flashing back now, all the way back to <em>The Pocketbook<\/em> which shows a different situation of the street.<sup>13<\/sup> There is care and rescue in the street in that film.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Kamau Da\u00e1ood says the street is a place of hard wisdom\u2026lessons you won\u2019t learn anywhere else.<sup>14<\/sup> So, that\u2019s the thing\u2026the kid [is] hanging out in the street; of course, your parents don\u2019t want you hanging in the street because you can pick up bad habits, bad notions, bad ways of being and you can get into things. And he discovered that\u2026the people who are in the street, it\u2019s their job, it\u2019s what they do. So, in a way he learns that lesson. She\u2019s a lady who\u2019s on the street after the job. She [Mrs. Luella Bates Washington Jones, the story\u2019s protagonist] gives you a different lesson than you thought you would get. She gives you a different complex challenge. And Langston Hughes knows stuff like that. He (the kid) wants to be in the street, and she\u2019s telling him, you need to understand. You wanna take something from me? You need to know what my having that entails. It\u2019s a cost involved.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: It\u2019s wonderful to see that actress again, Simi Nelson, who played a similar \u201clesson giving\u201d character in Haile Gerima\u2019s <em>Bush Mama<\/em>, a very different character than the one she plays in Alile Sharon Larkin\u2019s <em>Your Children Come Back to Yo<\/em>u (1979). In Larkin\u2019s film, the adult is \u201cschooled\u201d by a child, played by Angela Burnett\u2014who also plays the oldest child in <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em>. This also speaks to the beautiful cast of working actors you all had.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: The thing was [that] we shared them\u2026the relationships and the understanding and generosity of those people\u2026they were helping to create whatever we thought we were doing. They understood the demands of it. And they were sacrificing for it, because they weren\u2019t paid to do that. They were understanding and creative and supportive, so the main thing was: don\u2019t screw up the relationship because it doesn\u2019t belong to you. It belongs to the next one. So, it was like a company.<\/span><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_176474115\" style=\"width: 512px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-05.png\"><img aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-176474115\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-176474115\" src=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-05.png\" alt=\"Simi Nelson in The Pocketbook (1980). Courtesy of UCLA Film and TV Archive\" width=\"502\" height=\"362\" srcset=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-05.png 503w, http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-05-300x217.png 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 502px) 100vw, 502px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-176474115\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 10pt;\"><strong>Simi Nelson in The Pocketbook (1980). Courtesy of UCLA Film and TV Archive<\/strong><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: I\u2019d like to get back to your Bob Kaufman film. Can you say more about your impulse to begin making <em>And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead<\/em>when you did?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: I learned about him in the \u201970s, but I didn\u2019t really know or follow poetry much. But a friend I had at the time did. It was always told to me how unique he was, how significant he was, how interesting he was, this kind of thing. I didn\u2019t take a real interest in him, until I was in City Lights bookstore [in San Francisco] in 1986 in maybe March, and he had died in January. There was a special issue of <em>Poetry Flash<\/em>, which is published in Berkeley. It was the cover article, and it was interesting and gave a lot more information about his background, about his origin and the different mythologies that surrounded him, also the appreciation of the people of the poetry world of North Beach who knew and admired his work. So, I thought at the time\u2014it was only a couple of years after finishing <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em>\u2014oh I would like to make a short movie about him, make a tribute to him\u2026that could stimulate people to be interested. But then I couldn\u2019t figure out how to do it. As I learned, as I tried to find more information, it seemed that his life was sort of tragic, and I didn\u2019t know how to confront that, so I put it away.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Then, about [the year] 2000, my friend brought it up again, and I thought, okay, I should look at it and see if there\u2019s something there. I was working on another project, a video project about the building of the Walt Disney Concert Hall. It was a commission from my friend Allan Sekula. He invited me and four other photographers to collaborate with him. So, I started working with this small format video that had become digital video. I spent three and a half, four years shooting the building of that concert hall.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Then I started to think about Kaufman. That\u2019s when I seriously started to research it, to travel to meet people, to try to discover what was there, what I could accumulate toward making a film about him. It was said that there was an archive of his work in the special collections at the Sorbonne. So, I went to the Sorbonne, and I saw that. At the time, I was sort of traveling again and I was enjoying that and I was sort of mobilizing myself to be active again. And then I went to San Francisco quite a number of times before we actually went back to do the shooting. And I started to find the associates and people connected to him. They helped me a lot, directing me to the research. Then about 2006 or so\u2026I started to shoot seriously with my friend Pierre Desir.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Desir was also from the UCLA group?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Yeah. So, we started to travel a lot and find people and try to collect the interviews\u2026We tried to have people who knew him, really knew him. And then we had another group, the people who learned of him through their research and scholarship and who helped to revive and to promote an interest in his work. So, that was sort of how it went. After we had all the material, I had to start to work on the editing, to shape and figure out what it was.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Bob Kaufman may have been the greatest perpetrator of his own myths of origin, including the tale that he was the son of a Martiniquan voodoo-practicing mother and Orthodox Jewish father. Scholars and poets like Harryette Mullen and Maria Damon help demystify some of these \u201ccolorful but fictitious\u201d claims by clarifying that he was from a middle-class, African American, Catholic family in New Orleans, and that the German Jewish relative was at least two generations back on his father\u2019s side.<sup>15<\/sup><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>It is one thing to hear this or read these biographical bits, but when your film physically travels to New Orleans to meet this family, his sisters, his niece, something really powerful happens that vintage footage of Kaufman seen earlier in your film (mostly photographed in the Bay Area among his white poet cohort) cannot accomplish. The New Orleans section, as well as the surprising interview with his Puerto Rican first wife, Ida Berrocal Torres, and the archival images of his black labor organizing comrades like Ferdinand Smith, ground Kaufman in a pre-Beat, black and brown past.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: I think there is a counter view to the idea that the Bohemia of North Beach was just a \u201cwhite\u201d thing. The presence of many black people in the footage in the caf\u00e9 and the \u201cTour of the Bourgeois Wasteland\u201d shows that they were there in sizable numbers. This \u201crace-mixing\u201d was what was objected to by the police and others in authority. And in fact, Kaufman had a number of close black friends including a poet named Conyers that I was never able to interview. A number of them had roots in New Orleans and his relationship with them was quite apart and special. Mona Lisa Saloy, the poet from New Orleans who appears in the movie, she told me about this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Another thing missing from the film is his closeness to his older brother George and his family. They lived in Oakland and George, who was the closest to him of all his family members, always knew where Kaufman was and how he was doing. When his sisters visited from New Orleans and other places, they knew how to arrange meeting him through George.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Tell me more about when you first discovered his family in New Orleans and also his first wife, Ida.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: I knew about the family, I knew about his sister. I knew about his family through Mona Lisa Saloy. She knew his family. I had a friend from high school who worked as an administrator at Xavier, and he knew the sister really well. So, he helped to connect. And through him I got her phone number, and I talked to her. And for some reason they were always hesitant to speak. They\u2019re very dignified people and they don\u2019t like\u2026they didn\u2019t like the version of his biography that was around. But eventually she agreed to talk to me. And\u2026she invited her youngest sister and her niece to come\u2026 [But] she didn\u2019t want to be on camera, so I said okay, so we just filmed a photo on her wall, until the niece convinced her.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: The niece who is in the film?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Kelly, yes. Wonderful people, wonderful. When I arrived, she gave me the photograph of the four, the two sisters and two brothers. She was going to give me probably a much better photograph of her parents and that kind of thing. But, unfortunately what happened was [that]\u2026she lost all of her things during Katrina. So, it must have been 2005. I think we were there some months before [Katrina].<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: It is amazing that you got to them before that, or you might not have had anything.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Also, Mona Lisa Saloy was writing her dissertation, which was about Kaufman, and she lost all of her research. But because she had given me copies of a lot of things, I could give them back to her.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">As it happened, we were in Minnesota with Maria Damon, who was one of the first people to do serious scholarship about him and his biography. She had found a copy of the newspaper <em>The Pilot<\/em>, which was the newspaper of the National Maritime Union. And she was reading an article about a strike in 1947 that (Kaufman) was the rank and file leader of \u2026 and she mentioned his first wife, Ida Berrocal. I then went back, because the internet makes this possible, and I put the two of them in the search together, and what came up unfortunately was his daughter\u2019s obituary: Antoinette Kaufman Nagle. That\u2019s how they were linked.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">I then said, oh this is horrible, because Mona Lisa Saloy and Maria were always asking me if I ever found Antoinette, if I knew where she lived. Mona Lisa thought she lived in the Bronx\u2026I credit them privately and publicly because it was their question [that] made me sensitive to that issue. I looked\u2026[for] almost two years, then it was through Antoinette\u2019s husband, Michael Nagle, I found this connection with Ida. I called her up at her office. She was still the head of the Local 3 at the wholesale and retail worker\u2019s union. I got her on the phone, and she said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m involved in negotiating a contract, you call me back in a month and I will talk to you.\u201d She told me that and it took me three or four years to talk to her, and Michael Nagle is the person who convinced her, because they talked every day. He said, \u201cI know you don\u2019t like to talk about Robert.\u201d She said, \u201cMichael, I\u2019m old enough to realize that it takes two to have a conflict.\u201d And it took two years, and she was as formidable as you see. She died last year at 92.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: I wanted to ask you about these discoveries, because it seems to me that they shape how you decided to pace and unpack the film. As a viewer, I certainly experience it that way: that this is what you think you know, this is what you might know, and then these are the things you have no idea about.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: I think that\u2019s perceptive, because in part the structure is derived by the process of discovery. What I mean by that is when I decide to talk about his origin family it is late in the film. And when I decide to talk about his history as a militant in the trade union movement, it\u2019s like a flashback\u2026but it\u2019s the process of discovery. When you meet him, you learn about him as this figure in North Beach. We go through that first\u2014we go through that until it goes someplace else, when he goes to New York and then he returns. And then you have the people, some of whom knew him earlier, meet him again. It\u2019s the years from 1963 to the early \u201970s when he starts to be active again, participate in the poetry world. And at a certain point I thought\u2026you still have questions: Who is this guy? Where did he come from? So, then it seemed it was possible to go back. So, that\u2019s sort of how I came to it [the structure]\u2026trying to retain the process, to honor the process, but to see if you in fact can retain the interest of the audience. Seemed right, and it seemed to work.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: When I saw Grace Lee\u2019s <em>American Revolutionary: The Evolution of Grace Lee Boggs<\/em> [2013], I was struck by the moment when Jimmy and Grace Boggs appeared on the public television program, With Ossie and Ruby! [PBS, 1981\u201382, 1985]. For me, to see Ossie Davis and Ruby Dee\u2019s involvement with Kaufman\u2019s poetry in your film was similarly striking.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: They had progressive politics and broad interests. They took the mission of public television seriously. They thought it could educate, inspire, and you can recover a kind of political culture that may not be so obvious.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: I am curious about when and how the Semb\u00e8ne\/<em>Marseille<\/em> project came to you? Was it in the midst of working on the Kaufman piece?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: A former student was helping me. I asked him to go to that collection, and he got a lot of things that he thought would be helpful. But then, because he knew me, he found this [other] group of photographs and he thought, Billy will find this interesting.<\/span><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_176474116\" style=\"width: 611px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-06.png\"><img aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-176474116\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-176474116\" src=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-06.png\" alt=\"Archival photos of dockworkers sparked the development of Marseille apr\u00e9s la guerre (2016).\" width=\"601\" height=\"338\" srcset=\"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-06.png 725w, http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/billy-woodberry-06-300x169.png 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 601px) 100vw, 601px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-176474116\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><span style=\"color: #000000; font-size: 10pt;\"><strong>Archival photos of dockworkers sparked the development of Marseille apr\u00e9s la guerre (2016).<\/strong><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Which archive was this?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: He found them in the Tamiment Library and Labor Archives at NYU. There\u2019s a collection of photographs from the NMU, National Maritime Union, there. So, after we finished all the editing on Kaufman, I said to the editor [Lu\u00eds Nunes] that we maybe could do something with them, we could make a little film. And we talked about Semb\u00e8ne and the idea that Semb\u00e8ne was there. He didn\u2019t know about Semb\u00e8ne, so he spent the night learning about Semb\u00e8ne, learning about his life, his movies. Then the next day, we sat down\u2026And I had an idea, so we made a version, we made the structure. He spent the night again working, decoupage, exploring all the possibilities inside. And then we met again, devising the sound. We knew the music at the end, we knew we could use Josephine Baker, because she was part of the imaginary of the people. So, then I thought okay, I knew the story, I knew what I wanted to say. Then they insist that I write and record a narration for them, explaining it. And I don\u2019t like that\u2026so we made two versions. We made one without and one with. Most people prefer, seemingly, the one with, where I tell the story of how I, why I did that, what I was thinking.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: The narration, or lack of, was interesting in the Kaufman film, too. Tell me about your choices there.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: There\u2019s very little voice-over. The thing is, okay, narration has come back to nonfiction film and a lot of different kinds of filmmaking. I\u2019m not a great writer of narration, and I recognize that. I don\u2019t like narration that is overwhelming: if it\u2019s not telling you what you\u2019re seeing, it\u2019s telling you so much that you\u2019re not seeing. Not everybody is as great at it as some. Chris Marker is great. Raoul Peck is very good, and others. So, I know my limitations. But I wanted to have a creative way of offering narration. And I like end titles. And I have some narration: I had Maria Damon doing it, other people were doing it, and I ended up doing it myself. Some of the technicians and people thought it was a better idea. So, I did that. And the poetry, some of it I read, they convinced me that\u2019s a good idea and the best idea, so I read. But that\u2019s how we did that\u2026and it was very fast. Two days.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Didn\u2019t Semb\u00e8ne actually come to the UCLA campus in 1970?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: [Elyseo] Taylor was the guy who brought the state department tour of African filmmakers. He brought Semb\u00e8ne.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Did you get to see Semb\u00e8ne then?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: I\u2019m not sure if I saw Semb\u00e8ne at UCLA. I saw Semb\u00e8ne at Howard University when Haile [Gerima] was teaching. And I saw Semb\u00e8ne at screenings in different cities.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: You arrive at UCLA in\u2026?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Like \u201973, \u201974.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Okay, so you did overlap with Professor Elyseo Taylor, the sole black member of the faculty at UCLA\u2019s film school in the early \u201cL.A. Rebellion\u201d days. He is such an important \u201chidden figure\u201d in the department, instrumental, through the Ethno-Communications Program for bringing in not only key \u201cBlack insurgents,\u201d as Toni Cade Bambara would refer to your group, but also Chicana\/o, Asian American, and Native American filmmakers to the department in significant numbers for the first time.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: That was enriching, because it gave us a wider view of the world, a greater sense of possibilities, a greater sense of the dimensions of the problems to learn about, the social realities and structure and you know the class issues. It challenged us\u2026it was possible to grasp the idea that there\u2019s social conflicts beyond the ones you know, beyond even the black and white binary, right? You learn, no, it\u2019s more complicated than that\u2026And we used to argue and struggle about that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">I remember during the Second Gulf War, in 2003, when they were proposing interning people, it was the Japanese American community that were the first ones in the streets. And I saw Bob Nakamura and (he) said, \u201cYou know they\u2019ve been yelling at us for twenty years, thirty years, \u2018Why do you keep talking about the camps? Why\u2019re you talking about the camps?\u2019\u201d<sup>16<\/sup> And they were the first people to make a public protest of it. And I think that was healthy and good. And those relations with people among the different groups carried beyond school, because they supported each other in creating a lot of the consortiums and media groups within public television and other things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: This must be a question you get asked all the time. How do you feel about \u201cthe L.A. Rebellion\u201d as an expression and as a category?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: It\u2019s a concept that originated, like a lot of times the names for these things originate, with scholars, critics, others outside of it.<sup>17<\/sup> And you can kind of accept and appreciate it, because it\u2019s not mine or our concept, but it\u2019s a concept that somehow caught on and it seems to work for people beyond those [originally] involved.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">[Ntongela] Masilela and others always link it to the uprising in Watts and the cultural and political and social ferment and the role of that in bringing to attention the demands of black people and others for access to the institutions and resources that are afforded to taxpayers and citizens\u2014which was not acknowledged. So, the people of Watts rebelled. The people of Los Angeles in many aspects rebelled. Or they created the atmosphere and the possibilities. And we benefited.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">And maybe it was a part of the consciousness of the group prior to my coming, that one should make work that is somehow connected to people beyond the university, into the larger what they call \u201ccommunity,\u201d right? And even with all the internal differences and ideological positions and postures, they created a kind of ethos where that was a value that one was at least advised to consider. And then not only did they assert that, they provided support and example to help you do that. They sometimes tutored you outside of their formal responsibilities, if they were your T.A., whatever. Haile [Gerima], in fact, used to work in what was called the tech office, and Haile\u2019s the guy who taught me how to load a 16mm camera. And he did it because it\u2019s something you need to know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">So, maybe it sounds sentimental but this is what happened, this is what they did. And they didn\u2019t tell you exactly how to make the film, they didn\u2019t tell you, \u201cYou have to make the film like me.\u201d They told you that you needed to make a film. \u201cDon\u2019t talk a film, show a film.\u201d Then they offered support and encouragement and example\u2026so, that was what I saw in that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: The city itself and its other artists play such an important part too in the work of the Rebellion filmmakers. I think of Barbara McCullough\u2019s work with visual artist David Hammonds, musician Horace Tapscott, and others.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: Barbara [McCullough] was special because she brought her interests and her connections to those in the fine arts, people who later became famous. A lot of them brought different things. Ben [Caldwell] brings something different. Charlie [Burnett] knows the city, has a deep and special connection and memory of it, and he shares that. A lot of us came from outside\u2026we came to learn and try to show something about it and be in a place. It was the people of Los Angeles. It\u2019s their university, and they were the ones who made the fight and proved themselves in it over and over\u2026since Ralph Bunche. So, when police were bothering us at night when we were editing, looking at us like, what are we doing here? I look at it like we had a perfect reason to be there, because maybe Ralph Bunche, Kenny Washington, Jackie Robinson, Woody Strode, and all those people paid our ticket.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: It\u2019s a serious legacy. The opportunity to re-experience the cinematic parts of this legacy, with these recent restorations of the L.A. Rebellion films\u2014I\u2019m thinking especially of this new DVD collection of the shorts made available by the UCLA Film and Television Archive\u2014is really astounding.<sup>18<\/sup><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: The other thing about Los Angeles, like when Alile Sharon Larkin, in <em>A Different Image<\/em> [1982], films different signs and different things on places like Pico Boulevard, the places they filmed\u2026those places no longer exist. So, it\u2019s an historical record of that place. And as people have become at different times more fascinated with Los Angeles and its landscape and all these things, you see the worth of it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: It is a visual history.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: And Thom Andersen was one of the first to recognize that and note that and want people to know and be curious about these films.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Speaking of Andersen, what has it meant for you to be part of the CalArts film faculty since 1989? We\u2019ve talked a lot about UCLA, yet it seems from your collaborations with people like Thom Andersen, James Benning, and Allan Sekula that your time at CalArts has also been tremendously fruitful.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: CalArts has been really important for me. Meeting and working with Thom Andersen, Allan Sekula, James Benning, Hartmut Bitomsky, and other colleagues has been tremendously beneficial for my life and work. The challenge of teaching the bright and creative students, to meet the demands of trying to answer their questions has been a gift.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Anderson, Bitomsky, and Sekula are great writers with vast intellectual knowledge generally, and they are radical, original thinkers about photography, cinema. I learned with them and from them, through their approach to teaching, writing, and creative approaches to making the work. The same is true of James Benning. All of them inspired my own desire to make new challenging work.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: Before we end, I wanted to see if there was anything more you wanted to reflect on about the years between your features, <em>Bless Their Little Hearts<\/em> in the mid-1980s and the release of the Kaufman documentary, <em>And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead<\/em>, last year. How do you think about that period?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: I don\u2019t know that I think about it. I sort of stopped in the \u201990s, and then I started back from zero in a way, because I just started making things with a small video camera. Then I was offered an opportunity to make something longer but\u2026it was kind of a hybrid installation. And when I had something that I could commit to, I made it. And it\u2019s good that I could finally do that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong>Luckett: It\u2019s interesting to me that when you finally chose the new project, it was a documentary feature, not narrative fiction. Did your directing or storytelling approach change with this change of genre?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">Woodberry: As you know there is a great deal of time between the two kinds of work, in my case. And I had time to think a great deal about documentary before attempting to make one. Documentary offers the opportunity to communicate in a different way than narrative fiction. It can be as rich a form as narrative\/dramatic fiction, but different. Rhetorical, poetic, analytical, discursive, reflective\u2026which in many ways is discouraged in dramatic narrative films.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">So, that\u2019s it. You know, after I stopped for a while, I was trying to get back to it in a way, but I needed something formidable. I needed something challenging and I needed to maybe suffer through it a bit. So, that\u2019s what happened. And now I\u2019m trying to continue. I\u2019m trying to make the next thing and the next thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\"><strong><span style=\"font-size: 18pt;\">Notes<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">1. Bob Kaufman, \u201cWar Memoir: Jazz, Don\u2019t Listen to It at Your Own Risk,\u201d in <em>The Ancient Rain: Poems 1956\u20131978<\/em> (New York: New Directions, 1981), 33, (emphasis mine).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">2. Alice Walker, \u201cZora Neale Hurston: A Cautionary Tale and a Partisan View,\u201d in <em>In Search of Our Mothers\u2019 Gardens: Womanist Prose<\/em> (San Diego: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1983), 92.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">3. Barbara Christian, \u201cWhatever Happened to Bob Kaufman?\u201d <em>Black World<\/em> 21, no. 11 (1972): 21.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">4. Greg Tate, \u201cBeats, Blood, and Rhymes,\u201d <em>Vibe<\/em>, August 1996, 48.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">5. Jacqueline Najuma Stewart, \u201cThe L.A. Rebellion Plays Itself,\u201d in <em>L.A. Rebellion: Creating a New Black Cinema<\/em>, ed. Allyson Nadia Field, Jan-Christopher Horak, and Jacqueline Najuma Stewart (Oakland: University of California Press, 2015), 253.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">6. For example, Barbara McCullough\u2019s long-anticipated jazz documentary, <em>Horace Tapscott: Musical Griot<\/em>, premiered in February 2017 at the Pan African Film Festival. Julie Dash\u2019s short film <em>Standing at the Scratch Line<\/em> and Zeinabu irene Davis\u2019s documentary feature <em>Spirits of Rebellion<\/em> were both featured at the 2016 Black Star Film Festival in Philadelphia.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">7. He appears as an actor in Charles Burnett\u2019s short film, <em>When It Rains<\/em> (1995); he narrated films by two CalArts colleagues, Thom Andersen\u2019s Red Hollywood (1996) and James Benning\u2019s Four Corners (1998); and he was one of four artists commissioned by another CalArts colleague, Allan Sekula, to create Facing the Music, a 2005 multimedia installation on the making of Frank Gehry\u2019s Walt Disney Concert Hall in downtown Los Angeles.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">8. This is a variation of an epigram that appears in Cornel West, <em>Brother West: Living and Loving Out Loud, A Memoir <\/em>(New York: Smiley Books, 2009): \u201cI\u2019m a bluesman in the life of the mind, and a jazzman in the world of ideas,\u201d (v), (emphasis mine).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">9. Toni Cade Bambara, \u201cReading the Signs, Empowering the Eye: Daughters of the Dust and the Black Independent Cinema Movement,\u201d in <em>Black American Cinema<\/em>, ed. Manthia Diawara (New York: Routledge, 1993), 119.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">10. Renee Tajima, \u201cLights, Camera\u2026Affirmative Action,\u201d <em>The Independent<\/em>, March 1984.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">11. In 1962, Semb\u00e8ne studied filmmaking for a year at the Gorky Studio in Moscow. See Samba Gadjigo, <em>Ousmane Semb\u00e8ne: The Making of a Militant Artist<\/em>(Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 2010).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">12. According to Huberman\u2019s <em>New York Times<\/em> obituary: \u201cFrom 1942 to 1945 he was the director of education and public relations for the National Maritime Union\u201d and prior to that he was chair of the Department of Social Science at the New College of Columbia University. New College was an experimental \u201cprogressive\u201d undergraduate college under the auspices of Teachers College during 1932\u201339. See \u201cLeo Huberman, 65, Publisher, Dead; Monthly Review Co-Editor,\u201d <em>New York Times<\/em>, November 10, 1968.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">13. <em>The Pocketbook<\/em> is a short narrative film directed by Woodberry in 1980, based on Langston Hughes\u2019s short story \u201cThank You, Ma\u2019am.\u201d It is one of the selected shorts featured in the UCLA Film and Television Archive\u2019s educational three-disc box set: <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cinema.ucla.edu\/la-rebellion\/book-dvd\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">L.A. Rebellion: Creating a New Black Cinema\u2014DVD Anthology 1971\u20132006<\/a><\/em> (2016).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">14. Kamau Da\u00e1ood is a Los Angeles\u2013based poet and cofounder with Billy Higgins of the World Stage Performance Gallery in the Leimert Park neighborhood of Los Angeles. He is featured in <em>And When I Die, I Won\u2019t Stay Dead<\/em>, reading his original poem, \u201cDjali,\u201d which is dedicated to Bob Kaufman. He is also the subject of the documentary <em>Life Is a Saxophone\u00a0<\/em>(1985) codirected by S. Pearl Sharp and Orlando Bagwell.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">15. See Maria Damon, \u201cIntroduction, Bob Kaufman: A Special Section,\u201d <em>Callaloo<\/em>25, no. 1 (2002): 105\u201311, where she speaks of Kaufman\u2019s \u201creinvention\u201d as \u201ca Beat street poet with a colorful if somewhat fictitious legacy\u2026hybrid Orthodox Jewish and Martiniquan \u2018voodoo\u2019,\u201d then adds that he may have had a great-grandfather, Abraham Kaufman, who was Jewish. Harryette Mullen offers a similar biographical sketch of Kaufman in a September 2007 Pen USA Festival of Poets presentation. See <a href=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=EppWseVcn9A\">www.youtube.com\/watch?v=EppWseVcn9A <\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">16. Film director, educator, and cofounder of the Asian American media arts organization, Visual Communications (with Eddie Wong, Duane Kubo, and Alan Ohashi), Robert Nakamura was a graduate film student in UCLA\u2019s Ethno-Communications Program. His student film, <em>Manzanar<\/em> (1972), a personal narrative about his childhood memories of the American concentration camp, is considered the first independent documentary to address the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">17. See Clyde Taylor\u2019s preface, \u201cOnce upon a Time in the West\u2026L.A. Rebellion,\u201d in <em>L.A. Rebellion: Creating a New Black Cinema<\/em>, for his account of the term he created as a title for a series of black independent film screenings he curated in 1986 at the Whitney Museum of American Art (xix). See also the introduction of the same anthology, \u201cEmancipating the Image: The L.A. Rebellion of Black Filmmakers,\u201d where Field, Horak, and Stewart refer to the other figures: Ntongela Masilela\u2019s, \u201cLos Angeles School of Black Filmmakers\u201d; Toni Cade Bambara\u2019s, \u201cthe Black insurgents at UCLA\u201d; and Michael T. Martin\u2019s \u201cL.A. Collective\u201d (2).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 14pt;\">18. The DVD collection (see note 13), designed as an educational tool for classroom use and individual study, has been recently made available for free to archives, libraries, and other nonprofit organizations (see <a href=\"http:\/\/www.cinema.ucla.edu\/\" rel=\"nofollow\">http:\/\/www.cinema.ucla.edu<\/a> for more information).<\/span><\/p>\n<div id=\"jp-post-flair\" class=\"sharedaddy sd-like-enabled sd-sharing-enabled\"><\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&gt;via: <a href=\"https:\/\/filmquarterly.org\/2017\/06\/12\/digging-and-bluing-with-billy-woodberry\/\" target=\"_blank\">https:\/\/filmquarterly.org\/2017\/06\/12\/digging-and-bluing-with-billy-woodberry\/<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Digging and Bluing with Billy Woodberry &nbsp; by Josslyn Luckett from Film Quarterly Summer 2017, Volume 70, Number 4 &nbsp; We hear a familiar sound, Jazz, scratching, digging, bluing, swinging jazz, And we listen And we feel And live. \u00a0\u2013Bob Kaufman1 In his documentary feature And When I Die, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_mo_disable_npp":"","_s2mail":"yes"},"categories":[6],"tags":[4,12,11],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/176474108"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=176474108"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/176474108\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":176474120,"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/176474108\/revisions\/176474120"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=176474108"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=176474108"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/kalamu.com\/neogriot\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=176474108"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}